The Trans dead-enders remind me of the apocalyptic cult members described in "When Prophecy Fails" by Leon Festinger:
"Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong; what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view...
The [cognitive] dissonance would be largely eliminated if they discarded the belief that had been disconfirmed, ceased the behavior which had been initiated in preparation for the fulfillment of the prediction, and returned to a more usual existence....But frequently the behavioral commitment to the belief system is so strong that almost any other course of action is preferable. It may even be less painful to tolerate the dissonance than to discard the belief and admit one had been wrong."
It's very difficult for people ot relinquish sacred beliefs, but it seems to be almost impossible here, when admitting you were wrong also means admitting you were complicit in the mutilation and sterilization of children, many of whom would have just grown up to be normal happy homosexuals.
There is no way back and no way out for the most devout members of the Trans cult, esp the orgs and their staff who've been pushing and fundraising off this for a decade or more. They will continue to lie till the bitter end.
I only became aware of this phenomenon a year or so ago and have thought of it as a sort of corollary of the well-known defect in human reasoning, "Confirmation Bias". It really should have its own name. Perhaps experts in cults have one since it would be a huge problem for "deprogramming" cult members. Another source of help might be scholars studying paradigm shifts in science following Kuhn and the way established scientists hang on to the old paradigm on which they've built careers and how they have to die off before the new paradigm can become the new consensus. Meanwhile, they're the ones editing journals, supervising grad students, and doing peer review of submissions.
It can happen to groups, too. I'm dismayed by the way Democrats have resolutely ignored or denied the polling that indicates their positions on trans issues were a major factor in last November's loss. Not one of them has acknowledged the role of Trump's closing blitz of "Harris is for they/them ..." ads, nor has there been any real move away from this 80/20 issue. Personally, I thought there were some worse policies of the Biden administration than the "free surgeries" trope, particularly the DOJ's lawsuits to force state Medicaid agencies to cover sex change treatments.
What's tragic about changing one's position on pediatric sex change treatments must be the near impossibility doing so, no matter the strength of the evidence. Imagine being a surgeon who had performed these procedures and then being confronted with evidence you had butchered your patients. Even worse would be the situation for a parent who had encouraged or merely consented to the irreversible, catastrophic treatments for a child. Recognizing what he'd done would mean unbearably painful regret.
The Gender Theorists, like all the New Left post-Marxist Critical Studies depts, are terrible at writing and thinking, their work is stillborn on the page and draped in dead dishonest jargon and their supposed ideas all boil down to accusing everything they don't like of being an oppressive social construct—but when it comes to rhetorical shell games, moral and emotional blackmail, and academic politics they are masters.
They will regroup and rebrand and never give up their demented crusade, which is sadly one of the great (as in popular) post-faith faiths of the modern world.
That is probably the most accurate AND concisely succinct description of the gender theory cult that I have ever heard and may need to swipe it at some point (with credit duly given!)!!!
No one, including the GOP is coming for gay people. The way gays secured their rights--they were born this way and wanted the same rights as others, not special dark triad privileges like policing language and entering woman's sports--worked. I also think a factor in my view is that I read you, Bari, Andrew Sullivan, and Simon Edge. I realize that so many gays are speaking out about what is being done. Since covid I've been surprised at how quickly people can make a "them v us" so I suppose no minority is always safe, but in my mind it's the woke v "us" on mutilating and sterilizing children and I am very grateful you are speaking out for us.
Acknowledging that this is hurting homosexuals will be kept buried and obscured for as long as possible. Trans activists know that if this information gets out into the liberal wild it will force a reckoning they are sure to loose.
I was a design professional for over 40 years and have worked with and became close friends with many gay men over that time. My first ‘design’ job was in San Francisco in the late 70’s so I think I know what being gay and living a gay lifestyle looks like.
This field attracts lot of gay men, some who became quite famous. We are all older now, and what I call my “old school” gay men friends have expressed to me that they find this new version of the “LGBTQ+ movement” and it’s focus on the “trans agenda, the “grooming” of children, and all this “gender dysphoria” BS to be quite unsettling. They do not support it and feel the “gay pride/gay rights movement” has swerved way off it’s original course. To quote them…”we find it all rather disgusting and does not represent us as older gay men, who are in committed marriages and relationships.”
I noticed that Ben gave the two “gay” people he spoke with the “gender neutral” names of “Alex” and “Sam”. My question: what is their sex?
At times, I feel as if it might serve lesbians better to separate from LGB Alliances and join with feminist forces. I say this because the majority of lesbians I know are feminists and many gay men I know are not. We all ought to be aware of the sectors of the gay male population I’m speaking about … gay men who, quite frankly, do not like or wish to associate with more masculine presenting lesbians or women; gay men who support “man/boy love”; gay men who champion other men putting on stereotypical “womanface” and winning female beauty pageants.
IMO, women have unquestionably been the most affected by “trans activism”. While I see gay men like Ben and others speak out and I am grateful for their courage and support, the failure of the majority of gay men to rise collectively to support women and lesbians is notable to me.
The question I’ll pose back is “Do the majority of gay men support women and lesbians anymore and have they ever?” Because yesterday would have been an appropriate time for our brothers to awaken and rise.
No, I don’t think “LGBTQ+” orgs care about gay and lesbian people. Maybe in the abstract, but not in the specifics. At this point, I’d say they’re generally more in support of the progressive Omnicause and perpetuating their own existence, than in doing anything to materially improve (or even maintain) the lives of gays and lesbians.
In Ca. 10% of all Democrat elected office holders are LGB++++: 8 out of 40 Senate seats, 7 out of 80 Assembly seats. To my knowledge, not a single one has spoken out about the damage done by so called gender self identity. Nothing about the vast majority of young boys who if left alone would be gay. Nothing about lesbians being confronted by the sacred female penis. Nothing about the largest number of medical experiments on children since Josef Mengele,
People need to reassess who is in their tribe. Who is on their side and who supports them. Skin pigmentation, religious affiliation, gentile formation or where you park your penis at night does not indicate who is in your Karass. The times have changed.
I think that when pediatric gender changing surgery began to be questioned as to its efficacy and necessity rather than further evaluation and study of outcomes (certainly something parents would want to see) these gender conversion enthusiasts just convinced the far left Marxists it would be best to declare you don't need parental consent. That aversion to scrutiny suggests they are more afraid of being wrong than of being open, reflective, and logical.
I'd really like to see the studies; from this its hard too see the “methodological flaws” . The premise that anyone would slide or be coaxed into being trans to ease the pain of being rejected as gay, seems unlikely, actually upping the anty of
Cass review has links to all foundational studies if you like to see studies by yourself. If you’re interested in analysis, Jesse Singal did good ones.
The methodological flaws are focused on the post-treatment assessments, where the Dutch studies used two different assessment scales (or interviews/surveys), before and after the treatments. The logic of the surveys was such that they would have shown a treatment benefit to the patient, even in the complete absence of any treatment at all! For example, pre-treatment question to a boy: "are you comfortable being seen as a boy?" (the boy would reply: no). Post-treatment question to the trans-boy "girl": "are you comfortable being seen as a girl?" (the boy would reply: yes!) You can see how even absent any treatment at all, you would have gotten the same answers. That is the flaw in the studies: it's how they measured the success of the treatment; with a dysphoric patient, the assessment could produce ONLY a positive outcome.
Can you provide a link to this particular study? Is it included in a wider collection of studies investigating the same question. Meta-analysis is a powerful statistical tool that aggregates findings from numerous individual studies to provide a more comprehensive and reliable estimate of an effect or relationship. By combining data across studies, meta-analysis enhances statistical power, reduces uncertainty, and helps to identify patterns or effects that might be too subtle to detect in smaller, individual studies.
First, I'll describe a paper that critically evaluates the de Vries results, i.e. the "Dutch Protocol" results, which de Vries published in 2014 (see further below).
The critical paper can be downloaded in full as a PDF. It is by E. Abbruzzese, Stephen B. Levine & Julia W. Mason (2023): The Myth of “Reliable Research” in Pediatric Gender Medicine: A critical evaluation of the Dutch Studies—and research that has followed, Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy,
2. Bias in measurement of outcomes: The finding of “resolution of gender dysphoria” is invalid
The linchpin result of the Dutch studies is the reported resolution of gender dysphoria, as measured by the Utrecht Gender Dysphoria Scale (UGDS) (Steensma, Kreukels, et al., 2013). de Vries agreed with us on this point: “the main finding remains the resolution of gender dysphoria” (de Vries, 2022, p. 3). According to the final Dutch study, the UGDS gender dysphoria scores plummeted, from a near-maximum score of 54 (maximum of 60) at baseline, to the near-minimum score of 16 (minimum of 12) after the final surgery (de Vries et al., 2014). Rather than a true “resolution” of gender dysphoria, however, this spectacular drop was an artifact of switching the scale from “female” to “male” versions (and vice versa) before and after treatment, prompting a problematic reversal in the scoring. We argued that this fact alone invalidates the study’s main conclusion of the resolution of gender dysphoria (Levine et al., 2022a). While de Vries conceded the use of the UGDS scale post-treatment was “not ideal” because “the UGDS was not…designed to be used after treatment,” she asserted that it “does not imply that UGDS ‘falsely’ measured the improvement in GD [gender dysphoria]” (de Vries, 2022, p. 4). We think it is vitally important for the scientific community to recognize that the UGDS scale use was not merely “not ideal”—but that it entirely invalidated the Dutch study’s
main finding.
The original deVries paper being discussed/criticized by E. Abbruzzese, et al. can be found here:
It is Entitled, “Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment,” Annelou L.C. de Vries, MD; Jenifer K. McGuire, PhD; Thomas D. Steensma, PhD; et al.
Also we need to be sure to evaluate for strength of evidence over time with meta-analysis of peer reviewed studies designed to measure outcomes. That sounds like a poorly designed study from what you have there - can you include a link to it?
"In cult-like unison" Well, no shit, because what is being said is true. It's like saying that people are chanting in cult-like unison that the world is round, or that vaccines work.
People can attempt to hide, deny, and defend their blatant homophobia, but it doesn't matter to gay men and lesbians anymore because we're moving forward. It's quite ironic that the trans community seeks to modify their identity, and sometimes their bodies, but when gay men and lesbians pursue identity modification by removing ourselves from a community that doesn’t even acknowledge us or our real concerns, it's suddenly deemed unacceptable. Does that logic make sense? Claiming that these issues don't impact gay men and women reflects homophobia. We don't need such negativity. Best wishes and good riddance.
Great work, thanks.
The Trans dead-enders remind me of the apocalyptic cult members described in "When Prophecy Fails" by Leon Festinger:
"Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong; what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before. Indeed, he may even show a new fervor about convincing and converting other people to his view...
The [cognitive] dissonance would be largely eliminated if they discarded the belief that had been disconfirmed, ceased the behavior which had been initiated in preparation for the fulfillment of the prediction, and returned to a more usual existence....But frequently the behavioral commitment to the belief system is so strong that almost any other course of action is preferable. It may even be less painful to tolerate the dissonance than to discard the belief and admit one had been wrong."
It's very difficult for people ot relinquish sacred beliefs, but it seems to be almost impossible here, when admitting you were wrong also means admitting you were complicit in the mutilation and sterilization of children, many of whom would have just grown up to be normal happy homosexuals.
There is no way back and no way out for the most devout members of the Trans cult, esp the orgs and their staff who've been pushing and fundraising off this for a decade or more. They will continue to lie till the bitter end.
I only became aware of this phenomenon a year or so ago and have thought of it as a sort of corollary of the well-known defect in human reasoning, "Confirmation Bias". It really should have its own name. Perhaps experts in cults have one since it would be a huge problem for "deprogramming" cult members. Another source of help might be scholars studying paradigm shifts in science following Kuhn and the way established scientists hang on to the old paradigm on which they've built careers and how they have to die off before the new paradigm can become the new consensus. Meanwhile, they're the ones editing journals, supervising grad students, and doing peer review of submissions.
It can happen to groups, too. I'm dismayed by the way Democrats have resolutely ignored or denied the polling that indicates their positions on trans issues were a major factor in last November's loss. Not one of them has acknowledged the role of Trump's closing blitz of "Harris is for they/them ..." ads, nor has there been any real move away from this 80/20 issue. Personally, I thought there were some worse policies of the Biden administration than the "free surgeries" trope, particularly the DOJ's lawsuits to force state Medicaid agencies to cover sex change treatments.
What's tragic about changing one's position on pediatric sex change treatments must be the near impossibility doing so, no matter the strength of the evidence. Imagine being a surgeon who had performed these procedures and then being confronted with evidence you had butchered your patients. Even worse would be the situation for a parent who had encouraged or merely consented to the irreversible, catastrophic treatments for a child. Recognizing what he'd done would mean unbearably painful regret.
The Gender Theorists, like all the New Left post-Marxist Critical Studies depts, are terrible at writing and thinking, their work is stillborn on the page and draped in dead dishonest jargon and their supposed ideas all boil down to accusing everything they don't like of being an oppressive social construct—but when it comes to rhetorical shell games, moral and emotional blackmail, and academic politics they are masters.
They will regroup and rebrand and never give up their demented crusade, which is sadly one of the great (as in popular) post-faith faiths of the modern world.
That is probably the most accurate AND concisely succinct description of the gender theory cult that I have ever heard and may need to swipe it at some point (with credit duly given!)!!!
Thanks! Feel free!
No one, including the GOP is coming for gay people. The way gays secured their rights--they were born this way and wanted the same rights as others, not special dark triad privileges like policing language and entering woman's sports--worked. I also think a factor in my view is that I read you, Bari, Andrew Sullivan, and Simon Edge. I realize that so many gays are speaking out about what is being done. Since covid I've been surprised at how quickly people can make a "them v us" so I suppose no minority is always safe, but in my mind it's the woke v "us" on mutilating and sterilizing children and I am very grateful you are speaking out for us.
Acknowledging that this is hurting homosexuals will be kept buried and obscured for as long as possible. Trans activists know that if this information gets out into the liberal wild it will force a reckoning they are sure to loose.
Every time I think about conversion therapy by transition I want to cry
The crossover began around 1997, when I saw that Lesbian and Gay Freedom Day march signs had removed “Lesbian and Gay.”
Once same-sex marriage became imstitutionalized, the full-on elimination of lesbians and gays began from lesbian and gay institutions.
This happens though lesbian and gay discrimination in work, among youth, and in housing persists, as well as dead-letters sex laws.
Lesbian and Gay art is still discriminated against in the online world - Etsy, EBay.
Lesbians have been harassed incessantly by heterosexual men without remedy.
The instituons built up politically are as relevant to Lesbians and Gays as Hilary Clinton to democrats.
They are imploding. Good riddance and hope for something new and relevant.
I was a design professional for over 40 years and have worked with and became close friends with many gay men over that time. My first ‘design’ job was in San Francisco in the late 70’s so I think I know what being gay and living a gay lifestyle looks like.
This field attracts lot of gay men, some who became quite famous. We are all older now, and what I call my “old school” gay men friends have expressed to me that they find this new version of the “LGBTQ+ movement” and it’s focus on the “trans agenda, the “grooming” of children, and all this “gender dysphoria” BS to be quite unsettling. They do not support it and feel the “gay pride/gay rights movement” has swerved way off it’s original course. To quote them…”we find it all rather disgusting and does not represent us as older gay men, who are in committed marriages and relationships.”
I noticed that Ben gave the two “gay” people he spoke with the “gender neutral” names of “Alex” and “Sam”. My question: what is their sex?
At times, I feel as if it might serve lesbians better to separate from LGB Alliances and join with feminist forces. I say this because the majority of lesbians I know are feminists and many gay men I know are not. We all ought to be aware of the sectors of the gay male population I’m speaking about … gay men who, quite frankly, do not like or wish to associate with more masculine presenting lesbians or women; gay men who support “man/boy love”; gay men who champion other men putting on stereotypical “womanface” and winning female beauty pageants.
IMO, women have unquestionably been the most affected by “trans activism”. While I see gay men like Ben and others speak out and I am grateful for their courage and support, the failure of the majority of gay men to rise collectively to support women and lesbians is notable to me.
The question I’ll pose back is “Do the majority of gay men support women and lesbians anymore and have they ever?” Because yesterday would have been an appropriate time for our brothers to awaken and rise.
No, I don’t think “LGBTQ+” orgs care about gay and lesbian people. Maybe in the abstract, but not in the specifics. At this point, I’d say they’re generally more in support of the progressive Omnicause and perpetuating their own existence, than in doing anything to materially improve (or even maintain) the lives of gays and lesbians.
Mmmm, Christian Hamburger 🤤
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
In Ca. 10% of all Democrat elected office holders are LGB++++: 8 out of 40 Senate seats, 7 out of 80 Assembly seats. To my knowledge, not a single one has spoken out about the damage done by so called gender self identity. Nothing about the vast majority of young boys who if left alone would be gay. Nothing about lesbians being confronted by the sacred female penis. Nothing about the largest number of medical experiments on children since Josef Mengele,
SF has just opened the new National Queer Arts Center https://www.sfgmc.org/chan-national-queer-arts-center. The queers have won, eh?
People need to reassess who is in their tribe. Who is on their side and who supports them. Skin pigmentation, religious affiliation, gentile formation or where you park your penis at night does not indicate who is in your Karass. The times have changed.
To answer your title's question, No.
Tbh so far only LGBT+ lobby is coming for gays
Gotta get a handle on all those perv hypos. lollol
I think that when pediatric gender changing surgery began to be questioned as to its efficacy and necessity rather than further evaluation and study of outcomes (certainly something parents would want to see) these gender conversion enthusiasts just convinced the far left Marxists it would be best to declare you don't need parental consent. That aversion to scrutiny suggests they are more afraid of being wrong than of being open, reflective, and logical.
Uncle Bill
I'd really like to see the studies; from this its hard too see the “methodological flaws” . The premise that anyone would slide or be coaxed into being trans to ease the pain of being rejected as gay, seems unlikely, actually upping the anty of
cultural and psychological discomfort.
Cass review has links to all foundational studies if you like to see studies by yourself. If you’re interested in analysis, Jesse Singal did good ones.
Great links!
The methodological flaws are focused on the post-treatment assessments, where the Dutch studies used two different assessment scales (or interviews/surveys), before and after the treatments. The logic of the surveys was such that they would have shown a treatment benefit to the patient, even in the complete absence of any treatment at all! For example, pre-treatment question to a boy: "are you comfortable being seen as a boy?" (the boy would reply: no). Post-treatment question to the trans-boy "girl": "are you comfortable being seen as a girl?" (the boy would reply: yes!) You can see how even absent any treatment at all, you would have gotten the same answers. That is the flaw in the studies: it's how they measured the success of the treatment; with a dysphoric patient, the assessment could produce ONLY a positive outcome.
Can you provide a link to this particular study? Is it included in a wider collection of studies investigating the same question. Meta-analysis is a powerful statistical tool that aggregates findings from numerous individual studies to provide a more comprehensive and reliable estimate of an effect or relationship. By combining data across studies, meta-analysis enhances statistical power, reduces uncertainty, and helps to identify patterns or effects that might be too subtle to detect in smaller, individual studies.
First, I'll describe a paper that critically evaluates the de Vries results, i.e. the "Dutch Protocol" results, which de Vries published in 2014 (see further below).
The critical paper can be downloaded in full as a PDF. It is by E. Abbruzzese, Stephen B. Levine & Julia W. Mason (2023): The Myth of “Reliable Research” in Pediatric Gender Medicine: A critical evaluation of the Dutch Studies—and research that has followed, Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy,
DOI: 10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346
Link to this article full PDF: https://doi.org/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346
Start near end of page 7, which reads:
2. Bias in measurement of outcomes: The finding of “resolution of gender dysphoria” is invalid
The linchpin result of the Dutch studies is the reported resolution of gender dysphoria, as measured by the Utrecht Gender Dysphoria Scale (UGDS) (Steensma, Kreukels, et al., 2013). de Vries agreed with us on this point: “the main finding remains the resolution of gender dysphoria” (de Vries, 2022, p. 3). According to the final Dutch study, the UGDS gender dysphoria scores plummeted, from a near-maximum score of 54 (maximum of 60) at baseline, to the near-minimum score of 16 (minimum of 12) after the final surgery (de Vries et al., 2014). Rather than a true “resolution” of gender dysphoria, however, this spectacular drop was an artifact of switching the scale from “female” to “male” versions (and vice versa) before and after treatment, prompting a problematic reversal in the scoring. We argued that this fact alone invalidates the study’s main conclusion of the resolution of gender dysphoria (Levine et al., 2022a). While de Vries conceded the use of the UGDS scale post-treatment was “not ideal” because “the UGDS was not…designed to be used after treatment,” she asserted that it “does not imply that UGDS ‘falsely’ measured the improvement in GD [gender dysphoria]” (de Vries, 2022, p. 4). We think it is vitally important for the scientific community to recognize that the UGDS scale use was not merely “not ideal”—but that it entirely invalidated the Dutch study’s
main finding.
The original deVries paper being discussed/criticized by E. Abbruzzese, et al. can be found here:
https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-2958
It is Entitled, “Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment,” Annelou L.C. de Vries, MD; Jenifer K. McGuire, PhD; Thomas D. Steensma, PhD; et al.
Pediatrics (2014) 134 (4): 696–704.
Also we need to be sure to evaluate for strength of evidence over time with meta-analysis of peer reviewed studies designed to measure outcomes. That sounds like a poorly designed study from what you have there - can you include a link to it?
"In cult-like unison" Well, no shit, because what is being said is true. It's like saying that people are chanting in cult-like unison that the world is round, or that vaccines work.
People can attempt to hide, deny, and defend their blatant homophobia, but it doesn't matter to gay men and lesbians anymore because we're moving forward. It's quite ironic that the trans community seeks to modify their identity, and sometimes their bodies, but when gay men and lesbians pursue identity modification by removing ourselves from a community that doesn’t even acknowledge us or our real concerns, it's suddenly deemed unacceptable. Does that logic make sense? Claiming that these issues don't impact gay men and women reflects homophobia. We don't need such negativity. Best wishes and good riddance.